BackTwoBaySix wrote: ↑Tue Aug 26, 2025 9:13 am
That's because tying a minute based record doesn't remove a guild tag, it just results in a tie. On a minute table, the first record should remain as the record as its unbeaten by a tie.
I meant to say on a seconds based record - I don't believe there's any records that exist solely on the seconds based table to remove the previous guild, without also being a significant improvement in time, and you'd see this reflected on the minutes based table if so.
BackTwoBaySix wrote: ↑Tue Aug 26, 2025 9:13 am
I don't see the connection between this and the topic at hand? The thing in common between these records is that multiple people were competing at the same time? Having minute based table does not prevent people running at the same time OR competing for seconds records.
When I was newer to the community I used to have these same thoughts about seconds based, that the minute table was full of low effort sniped minute records, it is true to an extent. Many records/tactics were designed to break minute barriers even at the cost of seconds. It's also true that having to break minute barriers has inspired innovation that may not have been necessary to break the record by a second instead of up to a minute. There is a bunch of crazy shit we've done over the years to enable minute based barriers to be broken, would we have had made such advancements if we only had to save a second to improve a record? With a community our size I personally think not.
I am referring to the fact that with a "seconds based" focus, I believe you could (and yes, perhaps no one gives a shit in gw speedruns to actually do so) have far more competitiveness which is inherently doomed to die as more areas are maxed out. Look at MQSC solo minutes based. With the WoC quest tech, suddenly there was far more time to save and so there was 3-4 people running it iirc. Now apply that to seconds, and suddenly finding a 10s improvement is easier in an area where a minute might look impossible, and might encourage someone who would give up at trying to push a minute to actually go ahead and try to push some seconds. Does that mean we stop pushing for minute barriers? I don't believe that at all, look at other games again and there is plenty of people trying to get to the next hour/minute/second, it simply comes down to how passionate the community is. Minute based mentality robs the chance to grind a time down and get more people involved because the reality is most records a minute is a massive % of time saved that requires far more grinding and, yes, innovation that I can only imagine deters people from thinking about it, especially as mature as the tables are now.
And my problem with the minutes table staying as it is simply encourages people to go "Eh, I don't care about seconds based" and post a 5:55 when there was easily 30s more to get if they spent another 2 hours on it (I have no record in mind for this), which they never will because they are now immortalised on the minutes table. Equally, people don't want to push seconds on these types of records because "Eh, it won't remove the minute based anyway".
BackTwoBaySix wrote: ↑Tue Aug 26, 2025 9:13 am
The truth is that we have had seconds based records for years now, and we don't see many seconds based records (minute ties). We cannot make the community care about seconds, and removing the minute based table to try to make people care is ridiculous. I have read some disagreeable things on this forum but the proposition to remove the minute table and guild tags is far and away the most stupid and disrespectful to the legacy of gw speedrunning.
I did not say to remove guild tags (I was referring to the gimmick of minute ties) nor does removing minute based table actually remove any records - they would still remain as seconds based records, and they were still the fastest time when they were set, it's disingenuous to call this "disrespect" and I feel you have read my post in bad faith to describe it as such.
So my perspective on this as a relative newcomer who has also fallen victim in most part to the "seconds dont matter" mentality, if the minutes based tables didn't exist or was less prevalent, people would start to care more about seconds, whether for fear of being beaten by some cringe lords and their guild tag removed from the table, or because they actually care about completing an area as quickly as possible.
Yes, this is out of scope of the table formatting discussion but to me an argument against this reformat being around minute ties when the seconds based will more clearly show who was actually faster, what newcomer is going to look at a minutes tie alongside a seconds based record and not go "huh". My proposal was that instead, if a minutes tie (with a seconds improvement) did happen, then the previous record should be linked to as part of the approval post on the newer, faster record, which would result in a chain of links to follow to find the very first time posted.
(And this should happen regardless of it being a minute tie or not and regardless of this table formatting, just do it, I think many people are interested in how a record time developed. (see, summoning salt videos)).
If you post a slower seconds timed but minutes based tie you should be permanently banned.
