wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

[K A O S Theory]

i 100% agree with what jang mentioned.
its just no good idea to try and introduce second based records now, speed clear records have always been measured by nothing more than the ingame timer. if we make a 3rd party program to control our ages, it will lead to many many discussions after each new record posted and the appreciation for those who still try to make new records will fade, cause everyone blames everyone else for cheating... and this WILL happen.

Sorry to say this but the majority of this is bullshit, your community is already fading due to records that CANNOT be improved. Cheating is a non issue, people can cheat now quite easily which it seems you all are oblivious to?

Also i see a very good point in having minute based records. in my opinion being forced to mostly get 1 min faster tactics in order to beat some existing record, very often created extremely impressive tactics, whereas if you knew you can just beat the currend record by 1 second, this wont happen any more and if we had this rules from beginning on, we would probably now be battling for the first subcons doa or 15:xx min 8man fow...

Second based timing will not change the fact that major time saves are useful lmao people will want to optimize the run to the fullest extent, and major time saves will always be a factor in this. The difference is that minor time saves can be introduced too and not be wasted.

from my point of view as a mod there is no chance to make such a rules change, it would just have a too big impact on what has always been our way of making records.

It can easily be done and im sure you know this, you just dont seem to be willing to accept change

[Nika]

"minute based records hold back competition"

Here is a list of which records in GW are still breakable by todays standards (elite areas only):

Doa:
8man: yes
4men: yes
3men: (people could/should run for this)
2men: yes
1men: yes

Uw:
8men: yes
4men: yes
3men: probably
2men: yes
1men: yes

Fow:
8men: yes
4men: yes
3men: yes
2men: yes
1men: yes

Deep:
... this area wasn't really touched at all in the past few years anyhtings doable

Urgoz:
6men: yes
duo: probably an alltime tie is possible
solo: yes



There are almost NO "locked" records. Tacitcs are known often, possibilities are known.
Sorry but if we as a community want to achieve the BEST POSSILBE times, then let's get them down in minuetes first and then let's have a talk about seconds.
GuildWars is, liek Jang said, a very easy to play game. Knowledge is the key, not mechanical skill or anyhting. Being better means to know more. Know more/better tactics.

We could argue about 30 second steps or something, but well.

[roflmfao]

Sooo... 11 UW is possible? 4 Deep is possible? Maybe on a calculator.

[Cruz]

There are almost NO "locked" records. Tacitcs are known often, possibilities are known.
Sorry but if we as a community want to achieve the BEST POSSILBE times, then let's get them down in minuetes first and then let's have a talk about seconds.
GuildWars is, liek Jang said, a very easy to play game. Knowledge is the key, not mechanical skill or anyhting. Being better means to know more. Know more/better tactics.

We could argue about 30 second steps or something, but well.

And yet you fail to provide a reason against a second-based system other than to hold back competition. No one would be forcing runners to post their record times if they aren't happy with them.

[K A O S Theory]

There are almost NO "locked" records. Tacitcs are known often, possibilities are known.
Sorry but if we as a community want to achieve the BEST POSSILBE times, then let's get them down in minuetes first and then let's have a talk about seconds.
GuildWars is, liek Jang said, a very easy to play game. Knowledge is the key, not mechanical skill or anyhting. Being better means to know more. Know more/better tactics.

What is the reason not to just enforce seconds now? So that people are forced to push by minute? Thats a stupid reason to keep minute times imo there will still be major minute wide optimizations with a second timer.

What the fuck does any of this have to do with keeping minute times

[Nika]

This is not the reason not to use seconds now. That was just a counterargument to some of the stuff you 3 pointed out.

[Misty]

We really can't have a meaningful discussion about this until videos are required. Even I have a good enough computer to record, and I can't afford extra character slots...

we could make the timer wait for the entire party to load in to solve that issue and just make it a rule to not move or start your sc until everyone has loaded in? It would take work but this is solvable.

in some areas (Underworld and Urgoz being obvious examples), stuff starts happening as soon as the first player spawns - waiting for a slow loader messes with timing.

2. I would say that half the fun of runs is RNG like you say, RNG should always be a factor in the runs because it is a part of the game, I dont know if this should really be considered but im not a record runner so

Calling RNG "fun" is subjective, but that's besides the point. To get a perfect seconds-based record in basically any area, you would have to restart until you get the correct RNG. This is not a test of ability - neither the tactics nor the execution can reduce bad RNG, although of course making mistakes multiplies the number of resigns. Anyway, nobody is patient enough to waste thousands of cons doing that, so records will remain beatable with no further investment of skill.

For example in science people give credit to whoever made an invention not to the company which afterwards produces the biggest amount of it.

Do you know who invented the light bulb? It was not Thomas Edison.

[K A O S Theory]

@misty

in some areas (Underworld and Urgoz being obvious examples), stuff starts happening as soon as the first player spawns - waiting for a slow loader messes with timing.

Fair enough, we can find a way to sync up party timers if we so desired so that if one person moves the entire parties timers will start whether they are loaded or not, will be possible but a bit of work ;/

Calling RNG "fun" is subjective, but that's besides the point. To get a perfect seconds-based record in basically any area, you would have to restart until you get the correct RNG. This is not a test of ability - neither the tactics nor the execution can reduce bad RNG, although of course making mistakes multiplies the number of resigns. Anyway, nobody is patient enough to waste thousands of cons doing that, so records will remain beatable with no further investment of skill.

You're right, rng being fun is subjective, was the wrong term to use. However RNG is a part of the game, you shouldnt have the power to wish it away. And it is a test of ability to improvise to the situation given to you, or else it would be a stale repetition, i dunno if anyone finds that fun, ofc like you said that is all subjective

@nika

Sorry my response was a bit overaggressive. Im not sure how feasable sub 17 doa is, or many of those runs, im not well versed in these areas so i cant really argue against it, however this limiting of competition mostly limits missions. Which meme section or not still opens a very large issue with minute based times that elite areas will most likely face in the future, if the sc community holds up until then.

[Vivec]

The problem is, if records are second based you actually SHOULD NOT improvise to the situation given to you. If it is not the absolutely best situation imaginable YOU SHOULD resign the run, because otherwise it would be beatable by the next team that grinds for perfect situations all run. That's what all people have been trying to tell you. I really don't care as I do not hold any major records and just push some meaningless areas for fun, so it doesn't really affect me. But I still can see why that would really suck.

[K A O S Theory]

The problem is, if records are second based you actually SHOULD NOT improvise to the situation given to you. If it is not the absolutely best situation imaginable YOU SHOULD resign the run, because otherwise it would be beatable by the next team that grinds for perfect situations all run.

And does that team who puts in a significant amount MORE effort than your team not deserve the record? Is what we are trying to say I feel. I feel there is this environment in this community of tactics and ideas not wanting to be shared with the community due to feeling cheated if someone else gets the record with them. I can say that that type of mindset will destroy any community.