free toolbox? - discussion

[Cookie]

I wish to vote of no confidence in the new mod.

Do you even do records/attempts?

He's banned, but I imagine not. He thought that records were supposed to be done by ANet's rules, which anyone who actually does records would know is a joke

[Dwadwa <3]

Good players don't need help, but as cookie said, good players always did use help

I don't feel targeting by what Cookie said, pRma have never used any hacks in DoA. We knew some funny tricks in pve with Libra but there's nothing to do in doa, except using our brain. We didn't need -5 damage reduction or magic instant pop cons or HoS on something you can't to beat you ugly 21 in only 3 weeks, when it took you months. That's the difference between good players and guys who think they are good.

And one more time, I don't understant why we talk about a third party program accessible for anyone here when it breaks Anet rules...

[Cookie]

Yea I wasn't going to claim frenchies ever hacked in runs, just that they had the knowledge to do so if they wanted, hope that was clear. I know of Libras and Dwaynas PvE adventures was all

[Cookieismyhero]

Good players don't need help, but as cookie said, good players always did use help

I don't feel targeting by what Cookie said, pRma have never used any hacks in DoA. We knew some funny tricks in pve with Libra but there's nothing to do in doa, except using our brain. We didn't need -5 damage reduction or magic instant pop cons or HoS on something you can't to beat you ugly 21 in only 3 weeks, when it took you months. That's the difference between good players and guys who think they are good.

And one more time, I don't understant why we talk about a third party program accessible for anymore here when it breaks Anet rules...

Owned.

[jon comgree]

Good players don't need help, but as cookie said, good players always did use help

I don't feel targeting by what Cookie said, pRma have never used any hacks in DoA. We knew some funny tricks in pve with Libra but there's nothing to do in doa, except using our brain. We didn't need -5 damage reduction or magic instant pop cons or HoS on something you can't to beat you ugly 21 in only 3 weeks, when it took you months. That's the difference between good players and guys who think they are good.

And one more time, I don't understant why we talk about a third party program accessible for anymore here when it breaks Anet rules...

Owned.

chipotle reincarnated

[Clinically Sinsane]

... as well as Zraw, and they never abused their knowledge in records...

um nope

[Spagh]

I've been reading these three separate threads for the past days and I feel like I'm missing some things, I hope I'll get a some answers. I also want to give my point of view about what I've read.

1. Why do everyone start to realize only now that some actions realized via the toolbox (or any other hacks) aren't fair by the community?
   Indeed, I'm talking about the 21min DoA. When the video was released, everyone was aware that they did use hacks in order to get the record (I mean, come on, it was all captured & posted on YouTube...) and no one batted an eye. I was wondering if any other record was released that was also using something similar? Why did the community only wake up now? It seems to me that some people are being so hypocrite, admitting only now there was an issue when they had no problem with it months ago. Why only now?
2. You want to ban toolbox from records run? Good luck with that.
   Believe me, it saddens me to say it. It seems logical to me that all the players that have access to this kind of confort (auto pop cons) & hacks (GiTb/Quests taking when NPC fighting & other stuff) won't give them up because people who play the game fairly said so. They'll see an old bike & will keep on using their brand new one. Also the idea of making a light version of toolbox seems really bad for such tool would be easily mimicked & "improved" in order to make it act like the current one. There is absolutely no way for any of us to know if someone else is playing legitimately.
3. A few words to people who basically said that if we banned toolbox, we should also ban Texmod & Timers.
   Last time I checked, texmod was only indicating things to the player, I never experienced my texmod using my cons for me, nor enabled me to do things I wasn't supposed to. I see things such as 50% health and... Basically that's all. Now, what does really matter in a record run? Time. You need to know exactly when you are, where you are. People really need to know what's the difference between : indications, macros and hacks.
4. I don't see the point of this topic.
   No offense Has, I'm well aware that, when creating this topic, you wanted to relieve the tension but the question is not wether or not we should make it free. Pepsi used the right words.

   The problem with the Toolbox is not that you have/had to pay for it and thus not everyone would buy it.
   The core of this discussion is that e.g. the Toolbox gives you advantage over everyone who is playing legitimately.

   Couldn't state it better with my approximate english. Water is already leaking anyway.
5. Can we really change something?
   No, we can't. People will keep on using their hacks to prove to themselves they can achieve something.

   That's the difference between good players and guys who think they are good.

6. Does it really matter now?
   I don't know anything about current records tactics in other areas so I'll only talk about DoA and the answer is : yes, it still matters if people use hacks or not. Since we only take in account the minutes, the same scheme can be reproduced (22 -> 21) ; (20 -> 19). "But it's only a matter of seconds right?", oh wait...
7. My last words will go to Chipotle :
   

Sorry if this thread isn't the right place for that but I figured since the debate moves from one to another that it didn't really matter.

[Sylars]

-snip-

Logic is not allowed in this thread, stop it already!

On a serious note, I agree on most you said. To answer you question one: Quite a few players of old speedruns just came back now. Watching gwscr and seeing records with hacks (which have never been allowed in the first place) seemed wrong, so we apparently stirred up some drama.

[Pepsi]

I've been reading these three separate threads for the past days and I feel like I'm missing some things, I hope I'll get a some answers. I also want to give my point of view about what I've read.

1. Why do everyone start to realize only now that some actions realized via the toolbox (or any other hacks) aren't fair by the community?
   Indeed, I'm talking about the 21min DoA. When the video was released, everyone was aware that they did use hacks in order to get the record (I mean, come on, it was all captured & posted on YouTube...) and no one batted an eye. I was wondering if any other record was released that was also using something similar? Why did the community only wake up now? It seems to me that some people are being so hypocrite, admitting only now there was an issue when they had no problem with it months ago. Why only now?
2. You want to ban toolbox from records run? Good luck with that.
   Believe me, it saddens me to say it. It seems logical to me that all the players that have access to this kind of confort (auto pop cons) & hacks (GiTb/Quests taking when NPC fighting & other stuff) won't give them up because people who play the game fairly said so. They'll see an old bike & will keep on using their brand new one. Also the idea of making a light version of toolbox seems really bad for such tool would be easily mimicked & "improved" in order to make it act like the current one. There is absolutely no way for any of us to know if someone else is playing legitimately.
3. A few words to people who basically said that if we banned toolbox, we should also ban Texmod & Timers.
   Last time I checked, texmod was only indicating things to the player, I never experienced my texmod using my cons for me, nor enabled me to do things I wasn't supposed to. I see things such as 50% health and... Basically that's all. Now, what does really matter in a record run? Time. You need to know exactly when you are, where you are. People really need to know what's the difference between : indications, macros and hacks.
4. I don't see the point of this topic.
   No offense Has, I'm well aware that, when creating this topic, you wanted to relieve the tension but the question is not wether or not we should make it free. Pepsi used the right words.

   The problem with the Toolbox is not that you have/had to pay for it and thus not everyone would buy it.
   The core of this discussion is that e.g. the Toolbox gives you advantage over everyone who is playing legitimately.

   Couldn't state it better with my approximate english. Water is already leaking anyway.
5. Can we really change something?
   No, we can't. People will keep on using their hacks to prove to themselves they can achieve something.

   That's the difference between good players and guys who think they are good.

6. Does it really matter now?
   I don't know anything about current records tactics in other areas so I'll only talk about DoA and the answer is : yes, it still matters if people use hacks or not. Since we only take in account the minutes, the same scheme can be reproduced (22 -> 21) ; (20 -> 19). "But it's only a matter of seconds right?", oh wait...
7. My last words will go to Chipotle :
   

Sorry if this thread isn't the right place for that but I figured since the debate moves from one to another that it didn't really matter.

1./ Why now?
Because several people (including me, Sylars and some others who did not really paricipate here) were active in Gw2 and thus not playing Gw1 at all.
When we came back, we were shocked what has happened to the community and it's morale compass. That's why we are trying to "fix" things. All these Toolbox-Users have adapted to the environment over the two years - we just see how white turned black.

2./ Revoking Records.
Yeah, we will not be able to make all the currently displayed records invalid. That's not really what we were trying to achieve with that, either.
The argument all the current records are invalid is more a shock-therapy than an actual incent.
Of course, Toolbox -no matter what version- is not the best conclusion, in my eyes. However, people won't stop crying about a banned Toolbox so we need to make compromises.

3./ Texmod & Timer
Nothing more to add. Some programs influence the game, others dont.

4./ Free Toolbox
Cant say too much since I already did ... back then.

5./ Changes
We are able to hange the way people think. even if they just want to avoid trouble on GWSCR.
However, rules are needed in a society. Most people will follow them - others want to see the world burn.

6./ Does it matter?
Of course, hacks matter. I'd rather see a legit 20min UW Record than a hacked 12min.

7./ Chipotle:
He is right. No question about that.

[Cookieismyhero]

<Chipotle, IP banned + account banned by Cookie.


I would like to thank you guys for the gesture. I also want to add that I created an anonymous account under the alias 'Chipotle' for a purpose. Reason being is that I was very well aware that I would get chewed on and spit out like garbage. Call it a certain moral standard...The community totally lost its vision on what falls under fair play. Remember that there used to be a time where record where done without toolbox or other hacks. All I tried was to make the community aware of the fact that it’s not according to the regulations, which everyone of you accepted in order to create an account, and that is our own responsibility to preserve a certain degree of fairness. The point is not 'if you can't detect it you better accept it', no...it's that the community has to wake up and take own responsibility to fight it. It's funny to see how people fail to understand the definition of cheat. Nevertheless it's great to see that there are still some fair people left in this game. It was entertaining to see everyone defend their n00bbox, justifying it with arguments like ''oooh yes but it doesn't affect the speed' or '' it can be recreated by a macro so it doesn't matter'' or ''it's the same as having a textmod''. Do feel better now with your hacked records? Not to mention the (corrupt) mods that are slaves to Has and FBGM. The fact that I'm a no-name on here didn't change any of my arguments which was the case with responds from certain people (GW-politics, imagine James disagreeing with Has). Or people defending each other because they are 'friends' ingame but don't realise how retarded it makes them. But it was brilliant to watch and certainly gave me some good laughs. I'm ending my story here with an already legendary quote by a frenchie :
''That's the difference between good players and guys who think they are good'' - Ones that don't need hacks and show their superiority and ones that do need hacks but still get 0wn3d like a lil b!tch.


Solange, farewall,

Your random internet hero,

Chipotle

Edit : I do compete and won't say more about this as I wish to remain anonymous because as pointed out, it doesn't change anything to my arguments provided.