Sulferous Wastes 2:21.0

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JnvSor
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:04 pm
In-game name: Relative Velocity
Guild: Run Run Run Run [Run]

Sulferous Wastes 2:21.0

Postby JnvSor » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:46 pm



Technically TAS but the other char is just me, but alt-tabbed. He's only there to trigger a quest spawn (The ally npcs at the end) and doesn't otherwise affect the run.

Afaik this is the only running record posted here, no? I'll just go over the "rules" as we had agreed on them years and years ago back when people actually competed for running records (Feel free to discard as trivia :D)
  • Precasting is allowed, timer starts when you move (Usually used for lornar's etc. where delaying before starting gives an advantage)
  • Timer ends when you zone
  • No cons except booze (Running is for profit, so cons tend to be counter-productive)
  • The whole run has to be possible for a single character.
    • Using heroes to trigger quest spawns is allowed. Heroes can't be used for buffs, stepping, or anything else. Just flag at the start basically
    • Using other characters to trigger quest spawns you don't have is allowed
    • Using other characters to trigger quest spawn combinations that wouldn't otherwise be possible (eg. coffer of joko + to the rescue) is not allowed

Misty
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:19 am
In-game name: ____ of the Owls
Guild: Illumination Theory [IT]

Re: Sulferous Wastes 2:21.0

Postby Misty » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:42 am

JnvSor wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:46 pm
  • Precasting is allowed, timer starts when you move (Usually used for lornar's etc. where delaying before starting gives an advantage)
That's an odd rule. I see how it gives a significant advantage, which seems more like an argument to not allow it. You wouldn't do this in an actual (paid) run, would you? That just wastes time.
JnvSor wrote:
  • No cons except booze (Running is for profit, so cons tend to be counter-productive)
Why is booze allowed? It's not free, and it has a huge impact (allowing you to drop IAU for another jump). Where is the line that separates booze from full cons?
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.

JnvSor
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:04 pm
In-game name: Relative Velocity
Guild: Run Run Run Run [Run]

Re: Sulferous Wastes 2:21.0

Postby JnvSor » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:08 pm

Misty wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:42 am
JnvSor wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:46 pm
  • Precasting is allowed, timer starts when you move (Usually used for lornar's etc. where delaying before starting gives an advantage)
That's an odd rule. I see how it gives a significant advantage, which seems more like an argument to not allow it. You wouldn't do this in an actual (paid) run, would you? That just wastes time.
This is all legacy from before my time, but my time was '11 so I have enough context to make an educated guess.

When there were a lot of runners we would race eachother. Back then computers sucked so you couldn't rely on everyone loading in at the same time, so we needed a countdown.

You wouldn't begrudge the guy that got stuck counting down from precasting his skills or it wouldn't be remotely fair (Especially with the muddy terrain in lornars) and since it turns out lornar's gives you a timing advantage for precasting everyone started doing it. Eventually this bled into running records. Every running record out there adheres to this so you can't beat them without it anyway.
Misty wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:42 am
JnvSor wrote:
  • No cons except booze (Running is for profit, so cons tend to be counter-productive)
Why is booze allowed? It's not free, and it has a huge impact (allowing you to drop IAU for another jump). Where is the line that separates booze from full cons?
Running records are based off of outpost running. Outpost running is for profit. You can't turn a profit if you're making 20k for a droks run and popping a BU every time you zone.

By contrast booze is both cheap, a huge boost because of DS, and an actual prerequisite for some runs. Snake dance comes to mind, where you can do it 20s slower with just IAU and perfect timing and spawns, or you can pop a 3pt booze, go faster, and drastically improve your success rate. Since booze is basically the only con used in real runs all the routes and skill timings ended up working with booze and no-one had any problems using it in records.

Misty
Posts: 498
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In-game name: ____ of the Owls
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Re: Sulferous Wastes 2:21.0

Postby Misty » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:23 pm

JnvSor wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:08 pm
When there were a lot of runners we would race eachother. Back then computers sucked so you couldn't rely on everyone loading in at the same time, so we needed a countdown.

You wouldn't begrudge the guy that got stuck counting down from precasting his skills or it wouldn't be remotely fair
If I'm understanding you correctly, the first people to load were allowed to use their skills immediately, but nobody could start running until the last guy loaded. How is that fair on the last guy? Would it not be fair if everyone was required to do nothing until the countdown?
JnvSor wrote: Running records are based off of outpost running. Outpost running is for profit. You can't turn a profit if you're making 20k for a droks run and popping a BU every time you zone.
According to your legacy post, you charge 30e for a Droks run... I know that's a huge change from the old days when these rules were made, but now it really would be economical for you to pop certain cons, especially if you can charge more for faster runs. Would it be out of the question to update your rules accordingly? The goal of speedruns is to achieve the fastest time without restricting yourself.
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.

JnvSor
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:04 pm
In-game name: Relative Velocity
Guild: Run Run Run Run [Run]

Re: Sulferous Wastes 2:21.0

Postby JnvSor » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:21 am

If I'm understanding you correctly, the first people to load were allowed to use their skills immediately, but nobody could start running until the last guy loaded.
Nah, you wait until everyone loaded before starting the countdown
According to your legacy post, you charge 30e for a Droks run... I know that's a huge change from the old days when these rules were made, but now it really would be economical for you to pop certain cons, especially if you can charge more for faster runs.
It's not much of a difference though - the vast majority of runs you're limited by your running speed, not your skill timings. Cons can't make you run faster than PH. The only benefit you'd get would be health/energy/armor (None of which you should be running out of anyway) a few extra shadow steps, shaving off a few seconds, and some extra SF/IAU casts you don't need if you're timing it right anyway

Flo
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Re: Sulferous Wastes 2:21.0

Postby Flo » Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:47 am

Hey,

this is a clean run and really great showcase of how to abuse the sulfur effect timer rolls.

Sadly, I will not approve this record since the rules under which it was done are not comparable to basic concepts of the gwscr rulesets.
-"Precasting is allowed, timer starts when you move" - Unacceptable. If loadtimes dont work out or timings get worse or you have to precast, that is your problem and part of the run.
-"No cons except booze" - While the [other] category would generally acknowledge pcon-less runs, alcohol is definitely a pcon itself. Either all (p)cons or none.
-"Using heroes to trigger quest spawns is allowed." - A hero counts as a party member. Feel free to bring as many heroes as you like, but then your record wont be a solo record but duo instead. Same for other humans in the same instance.
-"Timer ends when you zone" - Yes. Generally, records are minute based as to not require a 3rd party tool for timing. Obviously this does not make sense for this type of record, so I think we could consider soften up the rules in that regard, as there is also no risk if splicing.

I am not sure it makes sense for you to comply with this as it would be quite a change compared to what you re used to. Feel free to post running records here to showcase them, although they will not be listed on the table in the current setting.


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