Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

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Ether
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Guild: Loa

Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby Ether » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:59 pm


Vivec
Posts: 152
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Guild: Guardians Of Lost Tempel [Golt]

Re: Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby Vivec » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:32 pm

So they actually managed to implement a proper fix for the issue. Will they remove the cooldown from minipets and GitB again then? I'm impressed anyways.

btw, patchnotes: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedbac ... s/20160908

Kaspar
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Re: Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby Kaspar » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:16 am

Pretty sure they will keep the gitb cooldown no matter what, given that you could crash out districts with them.

Misty
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Re: Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby Misty » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:18 am

It seems like mob AI has changed in ways that affect every single area - are we gonna have a full meta reset, or what?
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.

Befi
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Re: Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby Befi » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:25 am

where is the problem with the new ki?

Mikelton
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Re: Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby Mikelton » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:32 am

what have you experienced that changed?

Ether
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:47 pm
In-game name: Ether The God
Guild: Loa

Re: Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby Ether » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:24 pm

mobs seem to target other things faster than before. they dont seem to stick to their target once they are settled on it.

things like inside ct, if you dont spike at casting range, say you are TK and u have to run in a bit and cast, you will get rupted a majority of the time.

fiends seem to pull in less, might have t o do with the fact that emo has burning speed so they target him more now.

ill try and get some videos of this

Misty
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Re: Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby Misty » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:25 pm

In DoA it's very noticeable, but it affects other areas too. It seems that mobs now re-target extremely quickly - essentially, there is no such thing as aggro "settling" any more. This may not be the only adjustment that's been made, but it's the only one I'm sure of.
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.

Cruz
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In-game name: Ashei Cruz

Re: Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby Cruz » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:17 pm

I think it's enough to warrant a meta reset. If not fully then just for elite areas.

haskhasin
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Re: Coin Drop No Longer prevents mobs from casting

Postby haskhasin » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:37 pm

What changed? (my guess)
The decision of what to target is relatively expensive, so in order to reduce server load they always had a simple heuristic that basically says "if you see a new target, it's likely that you'll see another new target soon, so wait a bit before computing your target". This would explain coin drop, but also why spikers didn't get instantly targeted when entering range of a ball. It also explains how the enemies that did swap target quickly (e.g. Fury group) were not affected by coin drop.

Also perhaps re-targeting was on a relatively slow rate, but maybe triggered by events such as current target dying, moving, etc.

A month ago they finally realized this mechanic was being abused and since server load is no longer an issue (less players and better servers) they decided to remove the wait and maybe increase the re-targeting rate. Now enemies keep evaluating their target often and without any breaks. In short, they are less likely to stick to their current target and instead they keep selecting the best target possible.

How does this affect the meta?
- Fiends in DoA instantly swap off the tanks when they aggro emo or mesmers, making it impossible to pull them in the ball with the methods we've used for years.
- All enemies instantly target spikers when they enter aggro. This is extremely important in city where mobs have rupts and even aoe rupts. A well timed Cry of Frustration an enemy can completely fail a spike, and off-damage can be much harder or simply fail if the designated spiker has to walk in range of the main ball to damage it.
- All enemies are much easier to break. Re-targeting works both to change target and to drop aggro. This does not mean their leash range changed, e.g. you can still pull Hungers forever, but it does mean that they are more likely to break once there is enough distance between you and them.

I'm sure all areas in game are affected in some way, but the probability that the change actually makes current records invalid (e.g. not doable in current meta) are relatively low:
- All "solo" jobs are basically unaffected. Enemies breaking MAY have some kind of effect but it's typically irrelevant. This also applies to when a single player holds aggro (e.g. center foundry).
- UW is mostly unaffected. Escort pulls in casual tactics rely on the fact that they swap their target to the Emo and try to attack him, so the update only makes this easier. I don't know about record tactics.
- FoW should be unaffected. The only issue I see is mesmers in forge swapping more easily to vosses and shattering them, but the spikes with a proper tank are very few (expecially in record tactics) and any decent vos can cover himself.

Does this justify a meta reset?
I think meta should NOT be reset unless someone makes a compelling argument for a record not being possible in the current meta, such as a group not pulling the same way or enemy re-targeting making some spikes impossible.
DoA, however, is affected a lot, but in different ways for different party size:
- Solo is not affected at all. No reset.
- Duo to 4man is somewhat affected: spikes can be harder in foundry and city, but 360 is mostly the same if not easier, as fiends target the mesmer and ball nicely without effort. Idk.
- Higher party size is affected without a doubt. Simply look at the videos and look at fiend waves, I don't think you can replicate that behavior using the same tactics with the new AI (but I'd love to be proven wrong). Fiends not pulling in make the run slower. An argument can be done about City spikes but while they are definitely harder, they can be just as fast with a bit more care. I'd say meta reset.

To the haters: all affected records are all-time anyway and I don't have anything to replace them with. The "correct" approach would be to reset every single record as we know the AI affects everything, even slightly, but that would be pretty sad.

TL;DR: things now target much quickly, this affects everything but (i think) not enough to justify a full reset. DoA (expecially high party sizes) is an exception, as fiends and city spikes are noticeably harder to deal with.


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