14min UW by DaWn

[Sylars]

at this point its like your just assuming they are hacking.. Give people credit instead of being butthurt dude

Doing several 14's within just a few days is certainly an achievement. I will simply not view runs with the use of hacks as records.

[Jirina]

automatted use of mobstoppers, not approved by cookie, forbidden by rule 7. Not sure if this counts.

mobstoppers are in the pcon tab of toolbox and using them without clicking them can be done without toolbox - a macro (but anyways, in our new 14 kenny said he clicked mobstoppers and he has a video of it). from what i remember unless cookie had decided to change his mind on us, pcon poppers are allowed.

as for the quest taking, i'm really unsure about the quest taking. it may have been with toolbox honestly, and i'm not going to argue "well it was only two quests, the reaper wasn't attacking" etc etc. these are pointless quests to even use toolbox to take. however, when we do lab, we are usually near the reaper when he is about to pop (standing on lava font for pi). sos takes escort and spiker takes restore and it's easy as that. sometimes the speed we take the quests at can look like it was taken with toolbox (as can any quest being taken such as mountains or plains). i hope in our latest 14 video (which is only kenny's pov) that you are able to enjoy the 14 as a "fair played" record as we are also.

also, about what i said about quest taking, i think i've heard people say you can't take quests if the reaper isn't in ally list beforehand, and i thought this too honestly. but i looked up a video of moonzy taking slayer in mtns and he took the quest before the reaper was in allies. this can be done in plains too of course, not that much different, just stand on the rocks where the reaper spawns and you can take it just as fast too. because of this i don't think a lot of the time you can see if someone took a quest with toolbox anyways. you have to trust, as has been said 3847238957832x.

[Double Derv Dare]

For the part of this video:

http://youtu.be/AKnXmionXdY#t=7m06s - automatted use of mobstoppers, not approved by cookie, forbidden by rule 7. Not sure if this counts.

http://youtu.be/AKnXmionXdY#t=1m47s - instant quest take of both, restoring grenths monuments and escort of souls. Sure, SoS and Spiker could have timed the quest take in the 0.5s windows they had to be millisecond exact.

Neither of these can be conclusively proven to be hacks, even with toolbox open. A double click macro can easily do the same with mobstoppers, and you already acknowledged one of several ways that the quests could be taken. Macros are also capable of taking multiple quests nearly instantaneously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmfljg67848#t=6m36s - enough said.

This on the other hand is legitimately proof of hacking. Since this took place months ago, and it had no actual effect on the run time I am opening up the discussion for whether or not this record shall be stripped. You may discuss this topic in the thread for that run.

Going forward, any run that uses ghosts in a manner such as this will be outright denied, regardless of their significance in the run time.

[Sylars]

automatted use of mobstoppers, not approved by cookie, forbidden by rule 7. Not sure if this counts.

mobstoppers are in the pcon tab of toolbox and using them without clicking them can be done without toolbox - a macro (but anyways, in our new 14 kenny said he clicked mobstoppers and he has a video of it). from what i remember unless cookie had decided to change his mind on us, pcon poppers are allowed.

I don't feel like it's fitting under the auto pcon "exception", which is why I was posting it.

as for the quest taking, i'm really unsure about the quest taking. it may have been with toolbox honestly, and i'm not going to argue "well it was only two quests, the reaper wasn't attacking" etc etc. these are pointless quests to even use toolbox to take. however, when we do lab, we are usually near the reaper when he is about to pop (standing on lava font for pi). sos takes escort and spiker takes restore and it's easy as that. sometimes the speed we take the quests at can look like it was taken with toolbox (as can any quest being taken such as mountains or plains).

Bit curious about that happening within the same frame, especially assuming reapers refresh their dialogue window whenever a quest is done or taken. Either they really took it within the same millisecond or it was done by the use of toolbox.

i hope in our latest 14 video (which is only kenny's pov) that you are able to enjoy the 14 as a "fair played" record as we are also.

I was already enjoying the 14's, even the first one by luke. I just don't view them as records. If there is a video of the last run which indicates no hack use, I'm happy to congratulate you about the current meta record. Trust issues might be there, but I'm not going to bring those up without any indicators. That would just make me be bitching, what some people already seem to think.

also, about what i said about quest taking, i think i've heard people say you can't take quests if the reaper isn't in ally list beforehand, and i thought this too honestly. but i looked up a video of moonzy taking slayer in mtns and he took the quest before the reaper was in allies. this can be done in plains too of course, not that much different, just stand on the rocks where the reaper spawns and you can take it just as fast too. because of this i don't think a lot of the time you can see if someone took a quest with toolbox anyways. you have to trust, as has been said 3847238957832x.

Of course. I've done enough speedruns as both, t2 and t4 to know that. Pepsi and I even worked out gaki tactics afterall, trust me, I failed countless times on taking the quest, despite being used to it by mountains practice. An interesting part to add is that different reapers give you different amounts of time to react and that their dialogue reaction time varies aswell.

[Double Derv Dare]

also, about what i said about quest taking, i think i've heard people say you can't take quests if the reaper isn't in ally list beforehand, and i thought this too honestly. but i looked up a video of moonzy taking slayer in mtns and he took the quest before the reaper was in allies. this can be done in plains too of course, not that much different, just stand on the rocks where the reaper spawns and you can take it just as fast too. because of this i don't think a lot of the time you can see if someone took a quest with toolbox anyways. you have to trust, as has been said 3847238957832x.

There's some weird shit that happens with the party menu. It seems to sometimes update at different times for different people. I've seen cases where a snake in foundry had run halfway to black beast before it showed up in my party menu, and I was the one who took it.

I might even still have a recording of that, though probably not. That's as good of an excuse as any to sort 3+TB of raw video footage I guess.

Bit curious about that happening within the same frame, especially assuming reapers refresh their dialogue window whenever a quest is done or taken. Either they really took it within the same millisecond or it was done by the use of toolbox.

That dialog box suffers from the same problems. None of the popup dialog boxes can handle messages past a certain rate accurately. This is easily seen when you go afk on 9 rings during an event. The emperor's lines get delayed, sometimes by several hours, skipped entirely, and sometimes after he has despawned, it randomly changes the portrait in the text box to a random NPC or player in the instance. It's buggy as fuck.

[Sylars]

Macros are also capable of taking multiple quests nearly instantaneously.

No. Not nearly as instanteously as shown in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmfljg67848#t=6m36s - enough said.

This on the other hand is legitimately proof of hacking. Since this took place months ago, and it had no actual effect on the run time I am opening up the discussion for whether or not this record shall be stripped.

It's not the only part where a hos off a ghost was used. Hydro also used it to be able to hos up to the last keeper without triggering pits.


However, the idea behind allowing something isn't if it significantly speeds up the run or not. It's about if it gives any advantage, be it time or ease/comfort, as small as measurable or not.

[Double Derv Dare]

Discuss the merits in the relevant thread please.

[Jirina]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmfljg67848#t=6m36s - enough said.

This on the other hand is legitimately proof of hacking. Since this took place months ago, and it had no actual effect on the run time I am opening up the discussion for whether or not this record shall be stripped. You may discuss this topic in the thread for that run.

about the run time thing, this is what i had said in another post of mine, it's hacking but it's not affecting the run (except i had said this about something other than ghosts). it's not following the game rules but that's not what records are about, it's about what your time is and if it's not making your run faster then i don't see the problem (also relate this to the /age pm! but this is just my opinion on the "against the game rules but not affecting the time" thing). i think any use of targeting a ghost shouldn't be allowed, even if it saves virtually no time in the run, BECAUSE unlike pcons/cons, you can't target a ghost without a tool. you can pop cons/pcons without a tool though.

[Double Derv Dare]

That is the case now, and is the case going forward. Hossing of ghosts will get a run denied. Anything that is replicable without hacks is acceptable.

I'm legitimately unsure what point you are trying to make with that post. If you are discussing the 14 with ghosts, take it to that thread.

[Jirina]

sorry, running off only a few hours of sleep lol. but everything you here and in the other thread i agree with.