Are you really trying to fuck with me?
I was friendly, objective and open for suggestions/compromises in every single post - being tired of the discussion is no reason to bitch around so keep it cool.
To answer your question - again:
Seriously, you cant [...] assure safe TB-detection.
If people really start to meaningfully manipulate the Toolbox so obfuscate it's usage it is their pathetic will and we cant stop them. But -just as i wrote above- at some point someone might do a mistake and you have your evidence to ban him.
Somehow, I am not quite sure if you are pro or contra Toolbox, anymore. If youre pro: be glad; someone might obfuscate things and you can keep going. if youre contra: you cant control them and you have to trade evidence for trust.
Why would someone obfuscate toolbox to pretend mouse moving before popping the pcons by client?
For one, I doubt that there are that many people capable of, for other, why wouldn't you use toolbox contrary to an autoclick macro then? To save the need of pressing the button to start probably.
Afterall, I don't see any problem with banning toolbox altogether with any other third party tool from records. Anything that makes life easier should be disallowed in records, else the "fair competition" part is gone. Of course, you can still have people use stuff in runs but just hide it when posting a record. You won't have a way to tell if he used hacks or not. What I don't see is how this relates to if toolbox should be banned or not. If someone uses toolbox, he will use features of it, else it makes no sense to use it in the first place. Basically anything toolbox features gives users an advantage over non users. If it is available to anyone or not is not going to change that.
Not everyone will use it, so competition is left unfair.
A difference between texmod and auto cons, by the way: texmod might make your life easier, getting a better overview. Same goes for timer. Auto pcons even save you time, though and give you an advantage by that. As for timer showing gate status for urgoz, that should also be banned.
Not just about gw1, records are generally classified into different cathegories. Thry all share one thing, though. ANY software other than the game is NOT allowed. Not even if it just speeds you up by 0.01 seconds.
And once again, the question is not how to prove or not prove if a record used hacks. The question is if hacks should be allowed at all or not. I mean you could even hide hos'ing of ghosts in the box. Remove any visual effect of buhs and make the target bar invisible for them.
This is not toolbox hate, by the way. It's great tool and very helpful for certain stuff. Thing is just that any advantages (read: 3rd py software) should be banned from records. If it's the tele hack or toolbox doesnt matter.
OK. Lets just assume for the sake of argument that we could detect all toolbox usage. What practical purpose does banning it achieve?
We already outright ban things that cannot be done within the game. What is the practical effective difference in outright banning toolbox and allowing things that can be replicated via macros? Besides feel good measures, I cannot see any practical point in it beyond saving a single button press to activate consumables. You are the ones proposing a change to a more restrictive ruleset and not doing anything to answer why beyond personal views on integrity.*
Nobody has answered both questions. What purpose does outright banning toolbox achieve, and how are you going to detect people using it in violation of any rule?
Again, until you can fully answer both of those with concrete logical examples and reasoning that are independent of whatever moral compass you happen to have, asking for a change in the status quo is pointless. We currently reject any run where we can reasonably call it's legitimacy into play. What else would you have us do? In a perfect world the game would have built in methods of automating these pointless tasks, and hack kits would not only not be required, but not possible. This isn't a perfect world. We have to make do with what is available to us. By insisting upon an outright ban on toolbox, you are asking us to do the impossible. We cannot enforce such a ban, regardless of whether or not we want to.
*As an aside I don't personally use hacks. I use macros, or manually activate stuff. I personally don't like using them. I just have zero problems with people who do choose to use convenience things like pcon poppers. As long as it doesn't impact my gameplay, why should I care? Attribute hacks made RA even more of a cancerous shithole than it already is by default, as pblock bots did and still do. Pcon popping though? It doesn't confer any advantage I'd consider noteworthy, so I personally don't give a shit what people run.
haskhasin wrote:blablabla...
Targeting ghosts is something that can be really fun. Unfortunately I added it being unaware that it could help UW so much, since it pretty much didn't affect doa and fow, which is what I normally did. (And don't even try bringing fbgm's doa record up or I'll write a paper about that)
blablabla...
I don't care about your paper, I'm waiting for the 19 you promised or at least something like 20.
I didn't read this bullshit topic, your toolbox is a third program and it shouldn't be here. If you want to talk about this, go on gr or epvpers. You don't explain what a third party program is, you say anything about eula and you don't explain injection system.
Good players don't need this shit, but it seems to be less skills players everyday, and that's the real problem.
It's worth noting that players such as Libra and Dwayna have had access to similar tools for a long, long time, as well as Zraw, and they never abused their knowledge in records. Toolbox is targeted because it's the first tool of its type to become properly abused in record situations, unlike the Zraw hack window and whatever private stuff certain frenchies have.
Not targeting toolbox, but more hacks in general. Toolbox just happens to be a known tool, combining already written hacks with new ones.
As for James, once again. Banning toolbox from records doesn't have to do with detecting it. The teleport hack (standalone) is banned too, although there is no way to detect if it was usedjust by screens. If we allow hacks specifically, why don't we just allow them all together?
There are features in the toolbox you can replicate with a macro, like they keybinds to use a resurrection scroll. But most stuff either goes automatically or is not possible at all.
It's like having cheatengine open in a cs go tournament. You may, or may not do 'bad stuff' with it, but if you were not to, why would you have it open in the first place?
I personally see a few reasons to ban hacks all together, but not a single one why not.
And yeah, the possibility to use hacks has been here for a long, long time. It was just common consensus that the use of any hack that gives you advantage over other, be it unnotieably small, has nothing to do in record runs. Some have used them nevertheless, we can't know. We would have banned these tools from records nevertheless.
And it being free wouldn't change anything. If you give free aimbots to everyone at the start of some shooter event, eould that be a reason to allow aimbots? Please...
