Rule update

[Sylars]

Being out of arguments, you slowly seem to appear butthurt.

It's funny how quickly stuff turns into personal attacks on the internet, desperate lack of IQ, causing such of arguments seems to always lead to the same thing.

Inb4 you don't see what I did here.

[Double Derv Dare]

How do you propose to guarantee that toolbox will be detected? In what way are approved uses of toolbox meaningfully different than macros or manually doing stuff.

You haven't answered both questions yet. Ergo your posts are utterly useless to the discussion, and shall be ridiculed as such. You keep saying automatic pcon popping is a massive advantage. You then make ridiculous claims about how you are unable to do things that several hundred other people have been able to do for years with and without out tools. That is a shortcoming on your part, not everyone else.

Back your claims up with actual reasons rather than your own personal shortcomings as a player.

[Sylars]

How do you propose to guarantee that toolbox will be detected? In what way are approved uses of toolbox meaningfully different than macros or manually doing stuff.

This has absolutely nothing to do with banning something or not. Murdering people is not allowed, although you can't assure people won't do it. But if it was not forbidden, even more people would murder. I take it that you didn't watch the video. Even though it's obviously not meant serious, there's still truth in. It fits surprisingly well to this discussion.
You have absolutely no way to tell if someone used teleport hacks either, by the way. Yet it's not allowed.
Seriously, stop coming up with this non-argument. It has nothing to offer to the discussion and at best serves only the purpose of distraction.

You haven't answered both questions yet.

There's nothing to answer.

Ergo your posts are utterly useless to the discussion, and shall be ridiculed as such.

They brought stuff up, you simply couldn't pick on the points, because of personal preference or lack of arguments.

You keep saying automatic pcon popping is a massive advantage.

Quote me please. I never said anything about a "massive advantage".

You then make ridiculous claims about how you are unable to do things that several hundred other people have been able to do for years with and without out tools. That is a shortcoming on your part, not everyone else.

Excuse me, what are you talking about?

Back your claims up with actual reasons...

What claims are you talking about? And what reasons? Do you mean evidience? But then again, I have not made any claims.
Unless you mean "Having actions automately done instantly instead of taking care of them manually and noticeably slower", which is backed up by simple logic.

...rather than your own personal shortcomings as a player.

I'm usually not a person to say this, but it simply proves the point I brought up above.


On a side note, how do you justify deleting my post in the 14 min uw topic, clearing up that cookie has allowed the auto pcons feature of toolbox?
I think it's called abuse of power, feels a bit like on gw2 forum where you get banned for the most retarded reasons you can imagine. Do you share your mind processing unit with modbot?

[Double Derv Dare]

That analogy is deeply flawed. You can generally prove a murder. Banning toolbox usage will be utterly unenforceable. Toolbox usage is nowhere near as heinous of an offense as a Murder. Unless you think people should be subject to life imprisonment for it. A better analogy is something along the lines of piracy. It's illegal. Most laws regarding piracy are also completely and utterly unenforceable. Guess what, in quite a few countries, the laws are changing because of that. The question still stands, as does the question of practical differences.

You saying a question is irrelevant does not make it so. Either answer the question, or prove the question is irrelevant.

For consets and emo/lt pcons you gain an advantage, though. A small one, maybe 2 seconds, but still an advantage.

Right here you claimed pcon popping was an advantage. I gave you explicit instructions as to how it was possible to do without toolbox. You still claim it's an advantage of several seconds despite a direct counterexample. What conclusion am I supposed to draw other than you find it difficult to press several buttons at the same time?




I deleted your post because it was bitching about toolbox usage. That thread is for discussion of the run only. If you think they broke the rules as they currently stand, post in the thread. It is explicitly not for rules discussion.

[Double Derv Dare]

To recap. In order for me to view any argument concerning a rules change for third party tools valid it must do the following.

Be meaningfully differentiable from the current status quo.
Demonstrate flaws in the current status quo.
Have a method of enforcement (the current system does.)
Not grievously inconvenience players submitting records.

Even if you feel that outright banning it should be done for moral reasons alone, and even if I agreed, I cannot do that for just a moral/ethical reason alone. I will not acknowledge a rule that cannot be enforced, and I will not accept a system that assumes guilt. Both will lead to serious problems and abuse, and if you cannot comprehend why that is the case, you seriously need to take an introductory course on logic and philosophy.

[Sylars]

I'm done here. Nothing to discuss if one entire side of the discussion can do nothing but talk shit.

However, I'd advice you to watch your words. Less in a matter of threat, more about general behavior. You have now backed up a made up claim by another made up claim, both of which being false.

[Pepsi]

I would love to keep arguing because there are people out there that deserve the debate and an outcome that actually has sense and does help the community.

Your incompetence, stupidity -I would even go with retardation-, however, is just too much to compensate with working mental abilities.


Edit:
This being said, I am leaving GWSCR and everything that has to do with it. I thought the rules that are being set up here are the ones we are playing by, however, I have lost the faith in most of you, since stupidity apparently has taken over Guild Wars.
If anyone happens to have anything lifechanging to tell me, pm me ingame.
GL, HF and happy hacking.

[Double Derv Dare]

Propose a working solution then. I have made it abundantly clear that I will listen you if you can propose something that will work. You have completely utterly failed to do so.

All either of you have done is scream bloody murder over your own moral indignation. Guess what. I don't like toolbox either. I don't use it. I don't have a license for it. I don't even have a cracked version. The difference between us is that I'm not arrogant and stupid enough to believe that my personal distaste for hacks, particularly ones with the level of power the GWCA api allows, has any bearing on what others believe and do. If someone hacks, they hack. I cannot stop them. All I can do is review their records and deny them a spot on a leaderboard if they are using things in a game altering manner.

If you truly wish to leave, then goodbye and good riddance. Enjoy the smug satisfaction of your perceived moral superiority. I can guarantee you that the toolbox using segment of the community largely doesn't care one way or the other. Even I as a non toolbox user don't care one way or another if you choose to be a part of this community or not..

[Sylars]

Okay, one last attempt. I'll ignore attacks and other unhelpful points within your post.

Propose a working solution then.

A working solution on what?

Getting generally worded rule #7 and it's influence on one level?
Easy. Ban autopcons and anything that gives an advantage (as in game modifying, not just display purposes, as texmod have been approved to be alright to use) from third party tools. This includes the kind of getting to the proposed result in the game.
As stated in the rules, autoclick macros would still be alright. They are working differently, require input and give slightly varied results.

Making sure to base the ruleset and it's specifications (including like direct examples) on what you can prove or disprove from a screen?
Not possible. But off point anyway, you can't make sure people won't use tools to do things included by the rules. There is no way to prove or disprove the use of hacks in records, at least not going from only screens. This is the same to events like hos'ing off ghosts, teleporting into non "restored" areas or taking quests from attacking reapers, as in stuff you can't do without third party software, though. Regarding what it apparently takes for you to change rules (or not even change them), any hack with any influence would be allowed, as it's impossible to definitely show the use of one just by screens.

Once again, the latter point has nothing to do with a ruleset itself or it's specifications.

All either of you have done is scream bloody murder over your own moral indignation. Guess what. I don't like toolbox either. I don't use it. I don't have a license for it. I don't even have a cracked version. The difference between us is that I'm not arrogant and stupid enough to believe that my personal distaste for hacks, particularly ones with the level of power the GWCA api allows, has any bearing on what others believe and do. If someone hacks, they hack. I cannot stop them. All I can do is review their records and deny them a spot on a leaderboard if they are using things in a game altering manner.

It's hard to answer this, especially when under the goal of leading the discussion on topic, away from personal arguments and insults.

If you truly wish to leave, then goodbye and good riddance. Enjoy the smug satisfaction of your perceived moral superiority. I can guarantee you that the toolbox using segment of the community largely doesn't care one way or the other. Even I as a non toolbox user don't care one way or another if you choose to be a part of this community or not..

Once again, hard to answer. I wish I could give you more to work with, I can't seem to be able to sift out more content of your post.

[jon comgree]

If you don't/no longer compete for records, you should not be able to have an opinion on the matter of the rules as they do not affect you. I'm directing this @ chipotle & his incarnations who has yet to supply who he is.