The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info!

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Flo
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The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info!

Postby Flo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:44 am

Vote here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ZYvVr9 ... 4FphX_-VYg
Expires: Monday, 26.06.2017, 21:00 CEST (a little over a week from now)

So, this is the thread in which you can say what you voted for and why if you feel the need to express your opinion.

Have fun and keep the drama coming. Explain why the people that didnt vote for your opinion are delusinal, dumb, hypocritical or just nazis. Memes and pics appreciated.

Flo
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Re: The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info

Postby Flo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:51 am

Image

Misty
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Re: The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info

Postby Misty » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:09 am

I haven't voted yet, but I'll list all the questions so people can easily copy and paste, and I'll put it the answers of the ones I've decided on:

Do you accept the basic population determined by the above mentioned rules to be representative?
NO
The requirements for voting are arbitrary and extremely vulnerable to electoral fraud. I don't even believe in democracy anyway.

Do you agree with the way this vote is held and therefore with its results?
NO
No personal offence is intended to Flo or any of the other mods - I like you all, but this was quite sloppily prepared. I know people just wanted to get on with it so we could return to flaming each other for more enjoyable reasons, but I hoped we could put the rules debate to rest, and this vote leaves way too much room for further argument.

Should newly discovered glitches and techniques be allowed by default, as long as they are performed without the help of 3rd party tools?

Should newly discovered glitches and techniques be allowed by default, even if performed with the help of 3rd party tools?

Should the PURE category exist?

Should the STANDARD category exist?

Should the TAS category exist?

Allow a simple instance timer in PURE records?
NO
Aside from being OP in Urgoz, this would simply be a 3rd party program, which is exactly what PURE is supposed to be against.

Allow the modification of any textures (e.g. Texmod/UMod) in STANDARD records?
YES
This is pretty basic shit - if you won't even allow texmod, what would you even allow?!

Allow Health Trackers in STANDARD records?
YES
This is just information that is freely available to your eyes.

Allow Distance Trackers in STANDARD records?
YES
Once again, you can see on the minimap how far away something is. This doesn't allow you to do anything special.

Allow Aggro Trackers in STANDARD records?
NO
Yeah okay this is cheating. This isn't even in Toolbox any more...

Allow hotkeys that use an item in STANDARD records?
YES
Sure, why not?

Allow Auto-Pcons in STANDARD records?
NO
Fuck no, this really is playing the game for you. It provides obscene advantages over anyone who has to manually pop their pcons.

Allow macros to execute multiple keypresses in STANDARD records?

Allow bond monitors that only displays bonds in STANDARD records?
YES
This should be part of the game, and I think it's just an oversight/laziness from ANet that it doesn't already exist. It doesn't allow you to do anything you couldn't do otherwise - it just makes a bonder's job less ridiculous.

Allow bond monitors that enable you to cast and drop bonds via the bond monitor in STANDARD records?
YES
Again, I think this should be part of the game.

Allow movement macros in STANDARD records?
YES
Meh, I might change my view if I saw something OP that could be done with movement macros... but I doubt it. It doesn't let you go anywhere you couldn't easily find without it. Anyway, it's hard to enforce this rule.

Allow sending dialogs that could usually not be sent (e.g. UW teleport, fighting snakes in DoA) in STANDARD records?
NO
um..?

Allow other forms of targeting than the ones given by the game itself in STANDARD records?
YES
This is a tricky one, but unless you require a video from everyone, it's essentially impossible to enforce this.

Allow targeting things that are are untargetable without a tool (e.g. Ghost in the Box) in STANDARD records?
NO
Anything that's impossible without tools should not be allowed in STANDARD. Isn't that the basic idea?!

Allow ruptbots in STANDARD records?
NO
Sorry Pepsi <3

Allow Auto-Rezzscrolls in STANDARD records?
NO
No bots!

Allow Auto-Mobstoppers in STANDARD records?
NO

Allow forced slow loads WITHOUT A TOOL in STANDARD records?
YES
Sure, if you can do it with no 3rd party stuff, go ahead. Honestly you could do this in PURE as far as I'm concerned, so long as you're only using what's available in Guild Wars.

Allow forced slow loads THAT USE A TOOL in STANDARD records?
NO
Well no, if you need a tool to do it then it's tool-assisted.

Allow a tool that shows the area you can and can't walk on in STANDARD records?
YES
This information doesn't allow you to do anything you couldn't already do, and to be honest if you're going for a record in an area, you should probably be familiar with the terrain already!?!

Allow a tool that shows where your Shadow of Haste was placed / where your Recall target is currently located in STANDARD records?
YES
All this does is aid your memory - it doesn't actually DO anything.

Allow a tool that shows which direction enemies are facing in STANDARD records?
YES
Use your eyes, I guess?

Allow a tool that shows the terrain outside of usual compass range in STANDARD records?
YES
This is completely useless and is even annoying - I've pestered Has to remove it from TB but he says it's impossible. Banning this would just be a nuisance because you'd simply have to cover it up somehow.

Allow a tool that lets you mark spots and areas on the minimap that are later visible in STANDARD records?
YES
The normal compass has markers all over it, and just like custom markers, these are used as points of reference.

Should we tolerate little deviations from the new ruleset for old records in regard to 3rd party tools when those weren't forbidden (for example distance trackers, toolbox minimap, bond monitor), since the people doing the record at the time did comply with the then current ruleset?
I dont care.
I kinda do care, but the way we keep old records means I can't give a meaningful answer to this question anyway.

Allow Tool-Assisted actions that are in no way possible without a tool? e.g. targeting untargetable NPCs, taking or accepting quests without the requirements, etc.
YES
There's not much point having TAS without this... I would question the sanity or at least reading comprehension of anyone who votes "NO" on this.

If a PURE category exists, records posted should... (tick every option you're fine with)
require every single party member to provide a video.
You can't enforce PURE rules without videos from everyone. No other option makes sense.

If a STANDARD category exists, records posted should... (tick every option you're fine with)
require one video per split.
This is sufficient to see if any of the rules I voted for are being broken. If you voted YES for any of the other stuff like distance tracker, bonds monitor, custom markers on the minimap etc etc, you really have no choice but to vote for "require every single party member to provide a video."

If a TAS category exists, records posted should... (tick every option you're fine with)
require one video in total.
You need to prove that you actually did the run in the time you said you did... the /age can be faked far too easily. Beyond that, anything goes.

How many of the videos above have to be public? (tick every option you're fine with)
None, but its okay if more than one mod sees them and approves the record.
I'd LIKE for all the videos to be public, but I don't really think it should be enforced, since we still live in a world where people are afraid their tactics will be "stolen" and used to beat their record. One mod is not enough to approve a record, though; you need at least 2 who were not involved in the run.

Should we tolerate deviations from the new ruleset for old records in regard to videos, since the people doing the record at the time did comply with the then current ruleset?
I dont care
This is kinda complicated because without videos we have no way to see if those old records used UW tele hacks or whatever, but that's all in the past so whatever. Hopefully most of the old records will eventually be beaten with public videos anyway.


Okay, have fun flaming me for taking this too seriously, or for having opinions you don't agree with!
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.

Nika
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Re: The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info

Postby Nika » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:47 am

Ruptbot, autopcons, autorezzscroll, automobstopper? sure why not YES

Karia
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Re: The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info

Postby Karia » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:53 am

Discussing rules and the effects and result of a vote for months to have the best possible outcome to match the actual majorities opinion.

Meanwhile Misty:
Misty wrote:.... this was quite sloppily prepared....

Misty
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Re: The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info

Postby Misty » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:09 pm

Most of that time was spent with people either flaming each other or saying nothing at all when important questions were asked. I commend Flo for the effort he put into setting this up, but with so little co-operation from the other mods and the community in general, it's just not enough.
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.

Nika
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Re: The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info

Postby Nika » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:15 pm

Let.Nika.Set.The.Rules.

Karia
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Re: The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info

Postby Karia » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:42 pm

Only.Over.My.Dead.Cold.Corps.

Flo
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Re: The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info

Postby Flo » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:32 am

When Nika gets to make the rules:
Image

Eva is impressed
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Re: The vote is live! Justifications, flame and drama! +Info

Postby Eva is impressed » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:39 am

Misty wrote:Most of that time was spent with people either flaming each other
lol it's like you're new here.


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