Step 1: What is a "valid vote"?

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Flo
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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Flo » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:28 am

Misty wrote:No; that's something that has to be agreed on by consensus. If you have no faith in this happening, how can you have any hope of agreeing on a standard set of rules that don't grievously upset a significant chunk of the community?
I hope that there will be enough people accepting a marjoritys decision, like I would be.
Misty wrote:You keep appealing to the majority as though having numbers makes people right.
Better than not having numbers or even acting in contrast to them, dont you think?

And I wont react to your ridiculous gay people analogy (badum-tss), its exactly that - ridiculous.

Also please: We are faaaar away from a contentual discussion. Please keep the stuff about minimap out of here. This thread is to discuss ways to approach the situation in general.

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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Nika » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:43 am

Who would follow the will of the people? I mean we abbandoned logic long ago.

What we really need tho are logic baselines, to define what's legit and what isn't.
Ex: Everything doable with macro

Same thing is needed for texmod as it seems

However I feel like barely anyone knows the boundaries of macros or such and therefore people will even cry when something op is released that purely works as a macro

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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Flo » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:00 am

Nika wrote:Who would follow the will of the people? I mean we abbandoned logic long ago.

What we really need tho are logic baselines, to define what's legit and what isn't.
So how do we determine what "logic baselines" are in the mind of the majority? By... a... vote... maybe?

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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Misty » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:29 pm

Flo please stop talking about the majority and answer what we're saying...
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.

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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Flo » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:38 pm

Misty wrote:If you think that dissent is new, you need to brush up on your history. I for one have been saying for ages that we need greater representation than just 5 unelected mods who never meet up to discuss anything.
haskhasin wrote:I am interested in other people's opinion, but this won't solve the issue imho. The mod team is biased and was not chosen as a representative group. We were chosen to enforce rules, not make them.
Jang wrote:Maybe you should reconsider the way of collecting their opinions. I mean at the end of the day it's not very satisfying to get to vote yes or no on another persons ideas.
Cruz wrote:I'm very surprised this even has to be said. Since our rule set is arbitrary from the get go, shouldn't it be obvious that the people involved should have a say in how we want them? Let's be fair, the amount of people who even care about gw speedruns is small, and those who compete for them are even fewer. These are the people who should be involved in shaping the rules and ensuring this happens should be a priority for the moderators.
Eva is impressed wrote:Yeah like I already said earlier I think mods should only be there to edit the record threads (and eventually remove the dick pics or kitchen spams).
...

Dont act like this whole "majority" and "representative" thing is my idea. Most of the quotes can be found here: http://gwscr.fbgmguild.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1998 . And again: We re not really talking about a vote in this thread, we re talking about a way to establish a system that will eventually allow people to make a decision about how a voting system should look like.

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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Jang » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:24 pm

Misty wrote:
Karia wrote:
Misty wrote: To give an example from history, gay sex used to be illegal until people opened up to having a serious debate and realised it wasn't harming anyone. Unless TB minimap is fucking you in the arse, who are you to tell me I can't use it?
Are you just trying to compare the use of a illegal features with the gay rights?
Sure, why not? A few decades ago, you could call gay sex "use of illegal features", and further back in history, the majority would have supported this. My point is that a majority vote without an informed discussion on the topic will not guarantee the right answer.
Misty if you need a comparison to understand why people may have a problem with certain tb features (such as the map) and with others not try one that fits.
A fitting one would be performance enhancing substances in sports. While you are allowed to drink as many protein shakes as you want you are not allowed to use steroids. Why? Because steroids give you advantages you cannot gain naturally. Just like the minimap gives you advantages you can't recreate ingame.
It may not make you personally faster or allow you to get records you couldn't get before but it may also allow somebody else to do exactly that. We cannot use its effects for you as a measure stick for what 'makes sense' or 'should be done'.

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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Misty » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:18 pm

Okay Jang that is a good point to talk about, but not in this thread - I'll respond to it when we open an actual discussion about the TB minimap.
Flo wrote:Dont act like this whole "majority" and "representative" thing is my idea.
Absolutely none of those quotes say that a majority vote should determine the final decision on rules. The way I understand them, they're all saying that mods should not hold a monopoly on making rules, and everyone should be able to suggest ideas. You're the one who's saying that majority votes should be respected.
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.

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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Nika » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:37 pm

That's awkward
I meant who would NOT accept a majority vote but then autocorrect happens and well people believe it when I say such things XD

But on a des note since we cater towards our needs, it's the majority were lookin for, otherwise only pure and tas it is, which is quite hard to get under one hat with all the records we did over the past few years

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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Flo » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:38 am

Oh, I forgot to add something: I ll do absolutely nothing until every mod has signalled their consent with the described approach (edited in the 1st post as well). I think Has already said that he agreed with the approach in general, with slight deviations in the later stages (which we can discuss here or later).

Not quite sure if @Nika agrees, a clarifying post would be nice.

Will wait for @Marcin and @Mike before anything further happens.

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Re: What is a "valid vote"?

Postby Flo » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:10 am

Flo wrote:Not quite sure if @Nika agrees, a clarifying post would be nice.

Will wait for @Marcin and @Mike before anything further happens.


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