Yet another rule topic

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haskhasin
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby haskhasin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:55 am

I did what you said: I voiced my concerns for the vote on the minimap, calling it invalid. There were no opinions against that, so I assumed we agreed and didn't add the minimap to the rules. (http://gwscr.fbgmguild.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 8&start=20).

I also don't have any problems with rules that don't match my opinion, that doesn't mean I should accept an invalid vote.

Flo
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby Flo » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:03 am

Lets take a step back and forget the contentual discussion about minimap for a second then.
haskhasin wrote:I also don't have any problems with rules that don't match my opinion, that doesn't mean I should accept an invalid vote.
Now, whats a "valid vote"?

EDIT: outsourced this to http://gwscr.fbgmguild.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2031

Cruz
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby Cruz » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:04 am

I think I failed to express this clearly in my op, but I don't think a discussion like this on single individual feature of third party programs is very fruitful, nor is it necessary! I believe we should determine the legality of these features based on the rule set we have already agreed upon.

As they are now, I believe the rules follow the spirit of the gw speedrunning community. Is there anything stopping us from simply reading the rules and following them, instead of having an inflammatory discussion arise with every release of toolbox?

Rocks4Free
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby Rocks4Free » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:29 am

Misty wrote:The only logical recourse is to have [pure], [TAS], and nothing in between
THIS!

Karia
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby Karia » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:44 am

I thought about the different features of the minimap and the legit reasons why to ban them:

Health display on compass (50 shades of red), means you dont have to check the health by yourself anymore on certain targets: id macro = banned
Boss mob display: ID macro = banned
EoE and Zephyre: you dont have to know where a zephyre or eoe stands: ID macro = banned

and i could continue like this with every other feature. So the minimap can only be used if non of its features is used. That would be the only agreement between those who got used to play with toolbox minimap and dont want to play with the old "ugly" compass anymore and those who find its features too overpowered (for reasons) and want it banned.

I dont know how i want to see shadowstep and recall marks (id macros too?)

So in conclusion: if everyone can agree on a blank minimap we get a concsence for all ppl even though there is a minimap seen on the screen. But everyone is responsible to upload a video then. The current video rule is way too weak and outdated for the time we live in.

Befi
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby Befi » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:13 am

as is said:
the rules were good since coindrop, for years... .
lets just say: coindrop + toolbox-minishit = "TAS".
and all the good old stuff like autopcons and texmods are "legit" records.
and the "pure" record, for these guys who ever want, are not able to use anything except timer (or not even that) and have to make a video of the fullrun.
if ppl break ANY rule = no record
if ppl cry = dont care

rules are written down in the forum, if ppl dont know them its their fault and stop twisting the rules that much :-/
it cant be that difficult

cheers

Marcin
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby Marcin » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:41 am

Befi wrote:as is said:
the rules were good since coindrop, for years... .
lets just say: coindrop + toolbox-minishit = "TAS".
and all the good old stuff like autopcons and texmods are "legit" records.
and the "pure" record, for these guys who ever want, are not able to use anything except timer (or not even that) and have to make a video of the fullrun.
if ppl break ANY rule = no record
if ppl cry = dont care

rules are written down in the forum, if ppl dont know them its their fault and stop twisting the rules that much :-/
it cant be that difficult

cheers
+1

Misty
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby Misty » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:10 pm

Any chance we can move this discussion forward? It'll take ages to reach an agreement about how rules should be made, but right now there are records to be done. I don't want to waste effort doing a record without the minimap and then later be told I could have used it, or use the minimap and never have my record approved.

So what do you anti-minimap folks think of Alex's suggestion of disabling certain parts of the minimap? Which features do you think should not be allowed? Don't just say all of them... name the feature you have a problem with, and explain why you believe it's against the spirit of standard rules. If you're not sure what the TB minimap does altogether, you can read about it on the Toolbox website.
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.

livia
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby livia » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:56 pm

Features that should be disable.
1) Target from the minimap.
2) Marker.
3) SoH, Shadow Walk, ... mark.
4) Recall distance.
5) Color & size the same way regular map does it. i.e. color A for enemies & color B for allies.

Although, probably better to say which feature may be enable.
1) Showing enemies in a single color, shape and size.
2) Showing allies in a single color, shape and size.
3) Showing drawing & ping from the party.
4) Pinging & drawing like in the regular minimap.
5) Show which agent is targeted (if it is a enemie or ally).

Misty
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Re: Yet another rule topic

Postby Misty » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:16 pm

livia wrote:probably better to say which feature may be enable.
If you want to impose a ban on something, you need to
Misty wrote:explain why you believe it's against the spirit of standard rules.
Flo wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:56 am
Sadly, Misty is right.


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