wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

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Befi
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Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by Befi »

I albsolutely agree with basti!


anyway, if record-run-videos have to be puplished and you guys are counting every second for a record, the team which plays the most will get the record...
record runs will be 24/7 hard-grind, less-skill run shit which will be unfair for everyone who got a real life!


...you guys are talking about "unfair" 1sec longer load time which rly doesnt care at 99% of the records...
there are ppl who cant afford enough sweets for records and thats not unfair? i spend some money for other ppl's records which is not fair for you?!
...record runs are unfair since ever, just stop crying!

If you guys cant get records, dont blame the rules and make better tactics, that brings the community forward!

roflmfao
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:25 pm
In-game name: Herr Der Felsen

Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by roflmfao »

@Befi: The team that does the most runs gets the record? Oh dear, how terrible! Currently of course, most records are held by people who rarely play. Bullshit. It's already the case that records take dedication and effort, and a long grind. Clearly for some, this is just about making sure they are forever enthroned as "the fastest", desperately trying to argue than any measurement that might prove someone else to be faster must not be allowed. If a player (or a group of players) are "the best" in a certain area, they will still have the record. Right now, if a team emerges that is faster than the team that got the FoW record, they could eat shit for all it matters, because shaving of another minute is essentially impossible.

@Vivec: Sure, there is a lot of RNG in this game, but it's still mostly skill and execution based. Sure, another team might get lucky and have better spawns quicker. But unless they are equally good, they will not beat your time. And if it is indeed one run in ten thousand, how often do you think a team of "noobs" will happen to get that RNG after one evening of work? If it took you two weeks of runs to get a 17:59, do you really think I could grab some pugs in Kamadan and get a 17:58 by tomorrow evening just by being lucky? I doubt that, and if it should be possible, all the more reason to go back and grind for that 17:57. Also keep in mind that the perfect run doesn't exist, and doesn't have to. All speedrunning (at least in my mind) is the admittedly futile attempt to achieve perfection, ever approaching it but never quite making it. No speedrunner, ever, attempts to have a PB that matches his sum of best segments.

The current system simply encourages lazy runs with mistakes in them to be forever seen as "the best runs", because would anyone honestly care for another 12 minute UW, even a "better" 12? No, of course not, it would be a tie. Nobody cares about ties. That run would simply get the silver medal, "gg, but someone else beat you to it". No matter how much better the tactics are, or how much smoother the run went.

Especially when people argue that they don't want a change because then their times might be beaten (sure, you say it's about getting the perfect run, but it amounts to the same thing), it sounds like a cop out. There have been efforts to make timers that are at least difficult to cheat (more difficult than /age at any rate), all of which have been rejected. And at this point, it feels rather like people desperately wanting to make sure their names are not struck from the leaderboards. Sure, it's nice to be able to boast with how many records you have, but doesn't it feel even a little bit dumb to know that you might very well not be the fastest, just the first to be faster than an arbitrary minute-based timer?

Sure, it would be a bit of work. Maybe don't delete old times, just add the best ones on top:

4.2.2017 UW 12:56 [Some other guild]
1.1.2017 UW 12:58 [Some guild]

See, your names will forever be saved in an internet forum, adding at least another 10cm to your ego (read: penis) while overall, speedrunning is once again about getting the best times and running the fastest tactics, and not about who got there first. It would be nice to see records held by the best runs (who would in all likelyhood be done by the same people currently holding records).

TL;DR: If you only have a record because the current system isn't good enough to tell that others are faster, is your record really still giving you a stiffy? Because it really, really, shouldn't.

Befi
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:16 pm
In-game name: Befi Goes Ele
Guild: [hC]

Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by Befi »

@Vivec: Sure, there is a lot of RNG in this game, but it's still mostly skill and execution based. Sure, another team might get lucky and have better spawns quicker. But unless they are equally good, they will not beat your time. And if it is indeed one run in ten thousand, how often do you think a team of "noobs" will happen to get that RNG after one evening of work? If it took you two weeks of runs to get a 17:59, do you really think I could grab some pugs in Kamadan and get a 17:58 by tomorrow evening just by being lucky? I doubt that, and if it should be possible, all the more reason to go back and grind for that 17:57. Also keep in mind that the perfect run doesn't exist, and doesn't have to. All speedrunning (at least in my mind) is the admittedly futile attempt to achieve perfection, ever approaching it but never quite making it. No speedrunner, ever, attempts to have a PB that matches his sum of best segments.
<--- ur telling bullshit

idk who you are, but i think u never played any gw speedruns... spawns are just as important as the players in like nearly every record...
i was inactiv as fuck as i got my 1man doa record... no hard grind... just better tactics

and yeah, i think you can grab some randoms from kama, steal all tactics of a record and grind 24/7 for a half year to get the record... its npo problem

anyway.. not the theme...

we just got a problem with the old records...
im not telling second based records are shit, but how to introduce this rule when there are many minute based records already?

Jang
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Guild: [SenT]

Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by Jang »

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sup dylan

On topic: @ K A O S & roflmfao
On most games stuff like super fast reaction times are what makes you a good player. GW however requires mostly good tactics and good spawns.
So what people are trying to tell you is that on GW the performance of a team/player matters not as much as on other games and therefore it should not be equally rewarded. It's usually not same tactics --> faster run = better players here but same tactics --> faster run = better spawns.

Mikelton
Posts: 385
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In-game name: Spirit Of The Beer
Guild: Guardians Of Lost Tempel [Golt]

Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by Mikelton »

i 100% agree with what jang mentioned.
its just no good idea to try and introduce second based records now, speed clear records have always been measured by nothing more than the ingame timer. if we make a 3rd party program to control our ages, it will lead to many many discussions after each new record posted and the appreciation for those who still try to make new records will fade, cause everyone blames everyone else for cheating... and this WILL happen.
Also i see a very good point in having minute based records. in my opinion being forced to mostly get 1 min faster tactics in order to beat some existing record, very often created extremely impressive tactics, whereas if you knew you can just beat the currend record by 1 second, this wont happen any more and if we had this rules from beginning on, we would probably now be battling for the first subcons doa or 15:xx min 8man fow...
from my point of view as a mod there is no chance to make such a rules change, it would just have a too big impact on what has always been our way of making records.

Cruz
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Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by Cruz »

The fact that runs can be beat is the whole point of speedrunning though - It's a competition. If people are reluctant to enter something because they are afraid of being beat, aren't they are effectively saying they aren't able or ready to work as hard as their competition? I'm sorry to say, but that is an absurd argument when discussing how to benefit competition.

Randomness is a part of any game whether we like it or not. I fail to see how that is a valid argument against enhancing the competition. RNG may kill 75% of your runs, but you can be sure that it will do the same to your opponent, provided they are not using different tactics or simply are better at executing them.

Image
This is Dampe. He kills OoT 100% runs two hours in. Yet that category is still measured in (mili)seconds, because the community wants the fastest achieved time to be the record time.
Vivec wrote:- How do we handle old records? Records, where all videos and screens that once were there are long gone? Delete them? How do you round? For current meta records, we could always have a meta reset, but that still does not handle alltime records.
This one is a bit tricky. If a video is unavailable you won't be able to fairly compare it to recorded runs. I think they should still be listed though. I like the idea of keeping a top-list if there are multiple times, with a note of the date to keep track of who did something first.

roflmfao
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:25 pm
In-game name: Herr Der Felsen

Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by roflmfao »

I don't think there is much point arguing here, as you can see the responses tend to be of the "I don't want anyone to beat my time" variety. Let them have their glory, if it matters that much to them. This is clearly a community not dedicated to getting the best times but dedicated to having their names listed as frequently as possible in a list on a forum.

That being said, old records would obviously be kept (some of them can in fact be converted into seconds, but definitely not all of them). You'd just add second based records to the list. The most recent runs in at least FoW, UW, Urgoz and Deep all have videos and screenshots with exact timers. Take the lowest time for each run from all available sources and use that.

And finally, @Befi: So you're saying if I find a team and work at it with dedication for half a year, doing runs "24/7", then I could get the record? Now explain to me how that is a bad thing. Stealing tactics is a silly term anyway, you don't own tactics. You find them, and then you use them, and then everyone uses them. And most likely they will forever remember "this tactic was found by XYZ". Which should be enough.

Kaspar
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Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by Kaspar »

All minute based records have ever done is reduce competition. There really is no other way to say this. People quit once /age improvements can't be done anymore. It's a dumb system, but the best one we can have until EVERYONE, without exceptions, posts videos of records, so that things are transparent and people don't cry at 10 second time saves being achieved "non-skillfully".

Not requiring videos of EVERYTHING in 2016, is retarded. I recorded solo uw on a core 2 based laptop from 2008/2009 IN 1080p. If you say you can't record, I simply cannot believe you at this point, because nearly any piece of junk will be able to push 240p-360p video of guild wars.

Once we finally have everyone recording video, we can talk about seconds based timing more seriously.

Lastly, to those complaining about videos showing their tactics and whatnot, who will ever appreciate your tactic when they can't see it? I really don't understand some of you people. Someone beat your run using your tactics? Wow, time to cry "copycat", instead of improving.

Befi
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In-game name: Befi Goes Ele
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Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by Befi »

And finally, @Befi: So you're saying if I find a team and work at it with dedication for half a year, doing runs "24/7", then I could get the record? Now explain to me how that is a bad thing. Stealing tactics is a silly term anyway, you don't own tactics. You find them, and then you use them, and then everyone uses them. And most likely they will forever remember "this tactic was found by XYZ". Which should be enough.
I never said its a bad thing, you just said its not possible!
I don't think there is much point arguing here, as you can see the responses tend to be of the "I don't want anyone to beat my time" variety. Let them have their glory, if it matters that much to them. This is clearly a community not dedicated to getting the best times but dedicated to having their names listed as frequently as possible in a list on a forum.
i think u are a bit mad my friend, my e-penis is not second-based, if you watch the record table
That being said, old records would obviously be kept (some of them can in fact be converted into seconds, but definitely not all of them). You'd just add second based records to the list. The most recent runs in at least FoW, UW, Urgoz and Deep all have videos and screenshots with exact timers. Take the lowest time for each run from all available sources and use that.
all these records should be set at x:00, like doa: 17:00min
cause they made a 17min run in these day, no one cared about if its 17:45 or 17:05! and btw i agree that the 17min golt run is more impressive now...

and as i said before, im ok with second based records, its just nearly impossible to introduce them on the community we got
so give us solution and dont spamm that we are wrong pls

K A O S Theory
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Re: wtb non retarded rounded down minute times

Post by K A O S Theory »

Its not impossible to introduce to the community, toolbox even has a second based /age people can use and we can make more sophisticated and standalone timers so we dont force people to use toolbox (lot of controversy with toolbox as we know).

As others have said, its hard to introduce old times as it is for any change like this, but like people said if they have a recording of the run which most people will have now, we can get the second based time, for others, Im not sure ;/

Most other people have already argued all of the other points lol, but in the end IT IS DOABLE the question is if the people want it to be done.

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