Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

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Nika
Posts: 616
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:07 am
In-game name: Nika Iz Back
Guild: [SenT]

Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by Nika »

Hello Community,
this post basicly wraps up the results of the discussion-thread.
We will add these rules to the Official Rule Threads in the Guildwars Speedclear Record Section in 2 days, so there is enough time to change them again if problems should occur.

________________________________________________________

- a new section for any coindrop based records will be made, the tables will be updated according to this
- any form of coindrop or minipet drops are forbidden, even manuell drops
- every split must be recorded - so basicly every single role unless 2 people really do the very same job (uw duos aren't one split because you can't entirely see waht the other person is doing (can't see coins9:


Videos must not be posted as public and the links can simply be sent to a moderator to check.


Sorry Mike i totally forgot last night <3 I am really shitty at this job.

livia
Posts: 125
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In-game name: Livia La Jolie

Re: Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by livia »

Yo,
i did follow a little bit the topic and all the drama regarding that bug and i think it's quite a big mistake too make that rule.
I'm not a fan of bug exploit or script that give an advantage for a record, but i think there is few problems here:

1) You assume that people are guilty and they have to prove that they are not (Should be the inverse, no ?).

2) Ask for a video is a problem, not about revealing tactic, but more about the technical issue arround it. Indeed, the only way to record a run in Gw is to record the image and that add a restriction on the minimal config for do record. Unless, gwscr or someone provide an official or non-bannable "run recorder", I think that is not fair too ask for a video.
For finish about this subject, i don't know what is the minimal config for record Gw gameplay, but if you add this rule you must make clear few things like, minimal quality, how much of the run must be record, etc. (Can we denied a record because someone forgot to press "start recording" at the start ?)
If the minimum config needed is not too big we can make a plugin that start / stop record whenever we enter / exit an instance. Should be possible with Open Broadcaster

3) By the way, what is the worst ? Use autopcons or do a bug (no 3rd program) that is, sadly, in the game ? I don't like both but if we are objective and this is the goal of this forum, i don't know how we can justifie that rule.

About the coindrop, i completly agree that a record is not valid if it's done with a 3rd program, but if we cannot prove it idk for which reason we can denied the record.

Anyway have a good day and sorry for the poor english, you can blame rp.

haskhasin
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Re: Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by haskhasin »

Why forbidding manual coindrop?

Vivec
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Guild: Guardians Of Lost Tempel [Golt]

Re: Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by Vivec »

I am with has and livia on this one. We discussed this on TS as well and we all do not like that manual dropping is forbidden as well.
If you are good enough, to maintain your playstyle (skills, moving...) and still drop coins or whatever, feel free to do so. With the video requirement it should be very easy to see if a tool was used.

@livia:
I am currently using XSplit Gamecaster to record GW. It is used for streaming to twitch by lots of ppl as well. So i don't think it is bannable. It is extremely easy to use and produces 720p videos that you can upload to youtube directly. I think the program even supports the upload itself.

Sure, u have to click record yourself, but that is not all that hard. If a script to automatically start recording when entering a specific area could be created, that would be great anyways.

Nika
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In-game name: Nika Iz Back
Guild: [SenT]

Re: Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by Nika »

I discussed with Pepsi today and we came to another conclusion.
Ban ID-Bugs.
Simply forbig creating new Ids, with the only exceptions of using lunars without affecting enemies in range and casting Skills (like a spirit).
This would also remove the option to pop a minipet to disable foes for a small portion of time, or to unglich things with the ghosts.
But in the end this is a decision the community has to do.

The mechanic around ID-Bugs is simply something that does not encourage competition.

Marcin
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Re: Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by Marcin »

Lol manual or not manual, whatever. Any form of this bug should be banned from records and yes, vids should be recorded showing the splits in the record. If its too hard to use your brain and skills and rely on dropglitch for records just unistall since clearly this isnt the right game for you.

livia
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:48 pm
In-game name: Livia La Jolie

Re: Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by livia »

@Vivec
I know how to record etc. This post wasn't about me but more about the objectivity of this rules. When i talk about minimal config, it was a question about if there still exist pc that cannot record gw in 480p+. If there is can we denied there record because they couldn't take a video ?

My point was prety much, "does require a video for make a record valid is fair for everyone ?" & "Should't we assume someone is innocent as long we didn't prove otherwise ?" & finally if we ask for a video we should probably be really clear on the technical question (quality / fps /ect.) or provide a consistant method that doesn't affect computer fluidity.

haskhasin
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Re: Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by haskhasin »

This is a game mechanic, whether you like it or not.

Using it (manually) is on the same level as using the old res scrolls, or even the skilll Necrotic Traversal to glitch through gates. It was unintended by developers and made runs faster (and arguably more challenging and fun). Glitching foes is the same thing.

Yes, it may make runs faster, if you have the brain to make tactics for it and the mechanical skill to execute it.
It's by no means a way to make things easier, it's actually quite the opposite. Maybe it's easier to get a faster run time, but that doesn't mean the record is "easier", because it's faster for everyone!

It seems to me like you are trying to enforce a ban on it because for some reason you and others don't want to use it and are scared that some will. You are trying to play the game with your personal ideal of things that are allowed to do and force others to abide by the same ideal. Well, that's not how it works, here it's always been "whatever is possible in-game without 3rd party tools is allowed".

If you want to play the game by your ideal of correct behavior, feel free to do so, but don't force others to do the same. If you really want a separate record table, make one for NOT using it.

edit: typo

Ima Go Farm Now
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Guild: [SenT]

Re: Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by Ima Go Farm Now »

Someone should just set up a poll on this issue. I'm pretty sure most people relevant to the record scene(every mod) think this bug should not be valid in records, but I guess we should give the dissenters an actual chance rather than bicker on the forums and ignore them.

Barath
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Re: Changes regarding Coindrop [Rule Update]

Post by Barath »

hey guys. i`ve been watching this quite a while and i`ll tell you what i think about this whole discussion
over 8 years of guildwars, and over nearly as many years i play it, there was NEVER a discussion like this before.
why? because it was always about to get the FASTEST TIMES THAT ARE POSSIBLE out of the game!

since the toolbox is public, i see more and more ppl saying that stuff like this should be banned from speedruns.
but there was similar stuff as the toolbox looong time ago, for example the zraw hacks menu from mike. stuff like this was allowed for speedruns, same as any kind of glitch that you were able to find out for all the time i played guildwars speedclears.

and now after many years some ppl come and want to do challenging content without that. thats cool! i like that! ;)

make a second table for "restricted records" where you are not allowed to use ANY programm except the guildwars.exe and you aren`t allowed to use ANY glitches (no dhuumstuck for example too, no glitching for enemies in doa at the gates and all that stuff)

THAT would be consequent if you dont like glitching/bugging/hacking/cheating in a game

so. 2 record tables. the one that we were posting on since many years and where ppl go for the FASTEST TIMES THAT ARE POSSIBLE in the game, and a new one where u aren`t allowed to glitch/bug/hack/cheat or use any 3rd party programm!

i think that would be a good solution for everyone.

if you go for challenging stuff in a game like records where you measure your skill etc. with the skill of others, there are always rules so everyone is on the same lvl and got the same chances. the simplest solution for that: allow everything, so everyone got the same chance to get the record as everyone else. and thats how the guildwars records worked until now. if you want new rules, sure! but on a second record table please ;)

conclusion: 2 record tables! the old one that we were posting on since many years, and a new one for restricted records where you are not allowed to use any glitches or 3rd party programms ;)

have a nice day guys! and NEVER FORGET: its a GAME! we all want to have FUN here! so, lets have fun please and stop being angry :D
Barath

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